New Hometree

In honour of my favourite NB thread, a brand new ‘Things I noticed in the movie’ thread! List all small details that you noticed that you think people might not have seen yet. There are many.

I noticed that in Neteyam’s birth celebration, not only is Norm present (on the right) but two other humans as well, probably Max and a woman (on the left). Also, Norm is in his human form - was his Avatar not healed yet? Was the Avatar beyond repair and did they have to grow a new one?

Also, you probably noticed that during the shark attack, Lo’ak’s ilu gets chomped in the fin.
Today during my 5th screening I noticed that in the later scenes (Lo’ak warns Payakan) Lo’ak is riding this same ilu with the chomped fin! This totally answered my question if everyone has their own ilu, or if they’re interchangeable.
I’m calling him -or her- Chompie (until an official name has been given), and I love him

Hmm, let's see

- when Loa'ak hurries to the stabled for his Ilu to wart nPayakan you can see him grabbing a water bottle that look like a calabash
- the racoms Ikran have their own harnesses - material and details of style (looks more 'utility' with many pouches), but the cut and basic made-up are just like the Na'vi harnesses
- Neytiri is wearing Neteyams necklace when they go to visit the cove of the ancestors after the funeral
- Na'vi can suture wounds ... jake has two cuts over his face and a large slash on his back at the heeight of the rigth lower ribs (also collised with his knife belt)
- Tuk has her own knife
- recom Quaritch (Q) was really not thrilled at the whole Tulkun hunting thing - he seemes to be somewhere between suprised at how this actually looks (must#ve heard of it before, but seeing it is another thing), disgusted and just plainly not amused. Not a hint of satisfaction for killing such a large beast or smugness for 'prooving' percerives human civilisatory supremacy ... also excellent subtle acting
- as for more 'subtleties':
wearing less clothing - for him and all recoms - bit by bit
the way he so naturally strodes into the meeting room barefeet right throug hthe 3d projection ... something tells me human Qauritch would've
not just overlooked someone not wearing shoes in is situation room
when they are at the map table on the whaling ship talking you can see Spider walkign over from the left side of the table (from where we
look) to the right side (and subsequently fumbling around at the monitor station to the right before being shooed away by the technician) he
'tunnels' under Qs arms (outstreched with his hand resting on the table edge ... this was realyl apparent to me at a third watch - it's feels so ...
'intimate' ? To move physically around someonone else and passing by so closely and naturally - you kinda have to have not just quite a degree
of trust but also a certain 'connectiveness' .. like : most people wouldn#t do that with their boss, even if you are on good terms, much less
likely with a stranger - it just realyl stood out to me
- Na'vi bruises do get black and blue (see Aonung) - we haven't really seen it before - makes sense though, their blood is also read and seems to
work with oxygen like ours ... there must be some similarities
- Jake and Lo'ak adapt their hairstyles a bit: bot hstarting to wear theit hair bound back .. I think for ease of diving and underwater riding
- Neytiri is the only one of the family we do not see riding any kind of water animal herself (the only rtime we [k]ever[/k] see her even in the proximity is behind Jake when the Tulkun return - which is also the only time we see her actually genuinely smiling ... she really seriously is in the worst spot she has ever been
- all of the children adapting to Metkayina fashion to a degree
- in general: Metkaina fashion - Ronal and Tonowari having the title for best dressed couple in the bag (seriously - that drip tho' .. and so sos many more contumes than in part 1)
- the only one still using an Ikran regularly is also Neytiri
- Metkayina houses seem ot have small personal 'landing stages' ... I noticed at my second watch when I realised at the scene where Kiri is havign her feet dangling in the water (at night time) and Jakes comes to talk to her - she's no sitting at the endge of the house but on a boat (Jake is stepping down into the boat)
- Metkayina boats have woven mats as covers over them when not in use
- differing haistyles: Omatikaya wear braids and rarely their hair open , there is also the partial shaving of the head at the sides (mostly for men it seems) - Metkayina wear cornrows (again: makes sense with the hydrodynamics) and the hair often just open in the back, more 'updos' and buns and more 'haircuts' .. Rotxo has obviously a haircut and you can see more peopel in the background having shortened of 'formed' hair (at the Ta'unui too) - rarely to not seen in the Omatikaya
- when Lo'ak foes to find Payakan again the first time and he's just calling out for him you can see his Ilu with it#s head over the water flapping his fin on the surface and yelling out too at the top of his lungs (yes, I melted)

More to come - espcecially on citations and paralelled scenes and symbolism and forshadowing in general


My god this movie is brilliant.

Also: yes it seems Ilu ar eway more 'personalised' than Pa'li, but not quite to the degree of Ikran. It looks like those who handle tham at take care for them choose some Ilu for the Sully kids - when Tsireya shows Tzk how to give a treat to an Ilu Tuk says "I like her already." implying that she will from then on keep that specific Ilu. Also: baby Metkayina already having their own baby Ilu

Symbolisms and foreshadowing things:

It is Neteyam who gets more scratches and briuses and has to be carried out after the Maglev fack-up - Jake commenting afterwards that he "thought they lost them".

In the short shot of the family-hammock-time Neteyam is positiones above and his parents and across the group (who is more or less in a perpendicular position to him), making him the only one of the children not emclosed by his parents arms and further visually separating him for mthe rest of the group. This is causing a few different feelings in hindsight. (Also: tiny baby Tuk and Lo'ak with short hair).

The Eclipse is like in the times of old a symbol of misfurtune. Everytime we (as an audience) see the eclipse something bad at the direct surface level and even worse later down the line happens (also jsut after things had a more positive note very shortly beforehand) - they are always pivotal moments that change the pace and trajectory of the narrative.
The first time the children are visiting the old camps side. things seem to be relaxed and just 'youthful adventure time'-y - right after that they are caught by team blue, directly resulting in the capture of Spider and then later down the line of the family leaving their lives behind.
The second time we see Tsireya leading the group (without Lo'ak, mind you -as this is apparently about the same time he meets Payakan) to the ancestors cove - this is a positive and emotionally impactful moment, just shortly after that Kiri (and the tree !) have that strong seizure, resulting in Jake calling for Norm and Max rto chack on her, whichc down the line leads to the opposite side knowing where to look for them, causing the scking of the Ta'unui villages and the Tulkun hunt ending in Roas and her calfs death.
The third time the kids just got Spider back and managed to get back into the water - this tiem somewhat faster this positive note is taken away when realising Neteyam got shot. The Eclipse sets in when he dies, enveloping the family in darkness and leading to the parents rampage through the ship. I personally think that the 'directly negative' thing happening here is especially Neytiris entirely unhinges rage and fury (also see below) - we yet have to the the 'later down the line' consequences of this.

As for this: Her bow breaks. The one she held so much emotional weight on. Her fathers bow. The symbol of him entrusting her with protectign what is important. The last remaining piece of the hometree. And the last tangible piece of home for her. But it is not so much broken by something outside coming in - it breaks because in her rage she is blurring out everthing that isn't the rage and and as such she indiscriminantly attacks and kills everything that practically isn't Jake or the girls. It breaks beacuse she is out of her mind and stops paying attention to anything else. Her negligence and headlessness is what causes this. This severing of her last remaining connection to her self-identification is caused by herself. It also tells you: if you loose yourself in rage, fury and indiscriminant hatred jsut letting all of this flow out without caring for what it'll lead to - you might be ending up breaking something very important to you that can't just be easily fixed.

As obvious as all of this is - it only sinks in after a while and after a second watch.

The more I think and ruminate about this, the better it gets.

Thanks for all your excellent observations! I especially love the part about Eytukan's bow. I've failed to see if we actually see the bow breaking on screen, or if we only see it as she sees it.

Elyris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:37 am when Tsireya shows Tzk how to give a treat to an Ilu Tuk says "I like her already." implying that she will from then on keep that specific Ilu. Also: baby Metkayina already having their own baby Ilu

Yet we never see her riding her own ilu, she's usually with one of her siblings. Maybe she needs more practice. The baby with the baby ilu are fricking adorable!!

I was counting recoms last time: there are 12 in total (2 female), 5 of whom get killed in the fight where they try and take the kids. At least 3 got killed in the final battle - but more likely 4 or 5 (I lost count). Pretty sure Fike is dead. Wainfleet ended up just falling in the water, so he'll be back, and Q of course.
Also the recom that gets decanted on screen already has tattoos on him. That seems just as likely as their hair being braided in the tank.

Elyris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:34 am - Neytiri is the only one of the family we do not see riding any kind of water animal herself (the only rtime we [k]ever[/k] see her even in the proximity is behind Jake when the Tulkun return - which is also the only time we see her actually genuinely smiling ... she really seriously is in the worst spot she has ever been

Neytiri doesn't seem to adapt to her new environment as quickly as the rest of her family. She's still very much forest Na'vi. That's why Kiri gives her the breathing fish, she hasn't practiced holding her breath as much.
Speaking of breathing fishes, what are your thoughts on them? I'm having trouble accepting the concept of something giving oxygen through a neural link (as opposed to a fish that would cover the mouth/nose area).

Elyris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:34 am - when Lo'ak foes to find Payakan again the first time and he's just calling out for him you can see his Ilu with it#s head over the water flapping his fin on the surface and yelling out too at the top of his lungs (yes, I melted)

I loved that too! Tsireya's tulkun sister also flaps her fins when they see each other again.
On that note, Payakan was in the area sooner than the herd, because he can swim as fast as he wants. The herd had to swim slower because of the calf. That's assuming a lone tulkun still observes the regular migratory patterns. And also he probably keeps his distance intentionally.

Yes. I think Tuk isn't strong enoug hyet. As we saw riding an Ilu is just different from riding an Ikran or Pa'li for that matter. On the one hand you have to use your legs more at certain moves but let yourself 'flow' with other, on the other hand you mostly hold on with one hnad on the harness, one on the Ilus nexk - it takes practice and probably a lot of core strength. The Metkayina train from early age but the Sullys had to adapt. I think we'll see Tuk doing more on her own in the sequel(s).

Thos #anhel wing fishes' ... I am not sure if they actually onyl connetct with the neuronal braid (which is a thing in general,so duh) - it looks as if the 'attach' to the back of the - uuuhh - 'user'. Maybe they have a means of connecting to the Na'vi breathing system (that we don't really know much about). Also I don't think they necessarily give you oxygen in the strictest sense - I can see more of a circulatory breathing with some filter action going on.

This recom stuff is very interesting overall.

Also all of the family need some counseling after all of this sh1t. And yeah Neytiri is most probably the worst off of them. I saw in a good review (see below) that in reality she is the only one of the family who grew up in a consisten social, cultural (and natural) environment. Jake was a human and a military guy at that - he had no home, just being here there and nowehere ... leaving things behind simply doesn't hold nearly as much impact to him. Surely he struggled a bit and was sad to leave but you can see that after short while he simply put a hook behind that and went on. And the children practically grew up under the humans too - they were exposed to a variety of culutral impulses form earliest childhood - so adapting to new things and having an objective view on them comes more naturally to them (though they had obviously more homesickness than Neytiri, but less than Jake). Also Neytiri really really needs to speak her mind - we only see her arguing about this once and I can see that she never adressed this again afterwards. Jake - despite working on it - isn't the type to simply notice when someone struggles internally , especially if they keep it low. It is alright to be focused on the childrens wellbeing, but you cna not forget each other either.

So much miscommunication everywhere. As much as it hurts to see this - it is so realistic and believable.

This is - again - a very good review. I think *based' is what the young'uns say nowadays


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSWPUOxLR1M


[youtube]v=dSWPUOxLR1M[/youtube]

We do not see how the bow breaks directly (but think we can actualyl hear it - albeit 'behind' the other things going on). She's havign such a tunnel view that she becomes inattentive and only even notices whe nshe picks it up again.

Also: maybe I remember it wrong but the Bioluminescence seem to be a lot more toned down (or even non existent) during the time of the Eclipse. Both on land and underwater (the neuronal network main knowts are en exception, but that#s not surprising).

Neytiri seem to wearing the same necklace/top at the 'parents night out', when they leave and whe nthe arrive - only that she puts on that featheres choker (again: where do all the feathers come from? ) additionally.

Also: the fact that there is a specific term (I think it was 'uluntu') for someoneseeking shelter outside of their own clan has some interesting implications. Just as the same as it was with those 'prisoner poles' in the first movie and the fact alone that a 'social class' indentified as 'warriors' and differentiated from 'hunters' even existst ... there is so much, just so much, 'show' don#t tell in bot hmovies it's ridiculous. People are complaining about things that are televised to them - they just don't look.

As for that: it seems like the 'belt' Na'vi men are wearing only comes into the picture after the having completed the rite of passage. It is bound to that not to bonding with an Ikran.

Jake doesn't get his until after the fact as far as I can rememeber




he's been on Ikran back for a while at the big hunt, but he doesn't have it yet.

Which is interestign considering that Jake and Neteyam wear those belts, Lo'ak doesn't.

There is also something about the chokers there - they too seem to be worn by hunters (maybe even warriors) and not others.

I will have to find more pictures for that.

And both are obviously Omatikayan custom - the Metkayina dont have these.


And back to the main topic: notice how in the 'trainin montage' there's short shot of Tsireya and Lo'ak riding the Ilu underwater during the glowing nighthours - mirroring the short sequence with Neytiri and Jake on their Ikran.


Also also: the theme of 'soft power' and 'gentle strength' in all of this. At the climax of the third act we are first shown what obseessive hatred and blind rage can and will do by the adults, followed by the children showing the opposite. Bith Jake and Neytiri are saved by their children - but there's nothing forcefulyl abotu that, the kids don't show up with 'swelled chests'. They coem in and despite the urgency and maybe even desperation of the situation they are calm and levelheaded, focused, and compassionate . there is so much strength in what they do and so much gentleness in how they do it.

Both have grown to the point where they trust themselves, their abilites and decision making. Kiri is using her abilities wihtout being scared of them and to great effect - when she comes is she immediately starts to calm both her mother and sister down to the point they can go on the journey out of there with her and even afetr they reach the surface she has taht energy around her .

Same - if not more - goes for Lo'ak. He has been insecure and unsure of himself the entire tiem and nothing but anxious around his father. He too just saw his brother die and he again disobeys what he has been told - to stay back - yet here he is after all of that finding his father and calming him down. Applying all that he has learned from the time there. There is no force in all of this no 'classical male protagonist strength'.

All is done with a gentle smile instead of gritted teeth so to speak. It is truly astonishing and also additionally touching if you think about what it says.

The way of water teaches you patience and gentleness, empathy and compassion. The ocean is not your enemy, it is not agressive or opposed to you. If you repsect it you will be just fine. Go with the ebb and flow of the waves - that are by themselves like breathing in and out, like the heartbeat of the world made visible.

Neytiri is saves by Neteyam (he shoots the sharpshooter) and then Kiri, Jake is saved by Lo'ak, Q is saved by Spider, who beforehand also helps saving the girls guiding Jake to the right place .... there's a lot of "disobedience saved the day" goin on.

I can't recall if I already wrote that the CPR Neteyam is helping Kiri with after her seizure is surely something very human he had learned for mhis father (I can not recall seeing the Na'vi trying anythign liek that and most surely not in that exact form). So: letting cultures flow into one another, taking the good things form both sides is a good thing indeed.

There is a HUGE emphasis on family - and how their family motto is both their strength and their weakness. But it would have been interesting to have seen for example Ronal save Neytiri, how some female bonding might have changed the dynamics in the clan, maybe have resulted in a friendship. We don't see Neytiri interact with any of the Meykayina at all, and I feel bad for her. It's tough to find yourself in a new 'neighbourhood' where you don't know anyone.

And Neytiri has so many different accessories in this movie, and they're all gorgeously crafted! Actually, most females seem to have some variety, but not the men? It's hard to keep track, I might need to watch it a few more times

Elyris wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:20 am Kiri is using her abilities wihtout being scared of them and to great effect - when she comes is she immediately starts to calm both her mother and sister down to the point they can go on the journey out of there with her and even afetr they reach the surface she has taht energy around her.

She could've brought a few more breathing fishes with her though lol. I heard something about them feeding oxygen directly to the brain, since that is the organ that uses the most oxygen, but oxygen traveling through nerves is still a little weird. Yea yea, let me guess "It's alien biology, it works differently than on earth, anything is possible". That must also be the reason why they're not coughing up lung fulls of water after drowning. I'm guessing there's a way for the body to close off the lungs so no water gets in.
Supposedly there is info on the breathing fishes in the Art of the Way of Water book, which I've just ordered. Hopefully it also lists their name

Hmm - I personally think thatthese 'angel fishy' do more than just connect to you neuronal link - they sit on the back, very close to the lungs after all - if you want to get to the lungs without endangering the heart this is the place to go.

As for 'no water in the lungs after drowning' - I can see that there might be a stringer 'don't breahe in' reflex like in our babies - technically you can thow a seix month old into a pool and the little one's much less likely to drown than the older sibling at 2yrs. This 'diving reflex' is pretty fascinating - just imagine how things might be if we didn't loose that later on. Maybe they simply keep it and even when knocked out the body realises the situation, so to speak and will try to hold the breath for at least a bit. Not as unrealistic as is looks on first hand.

Also - ther's a lot of drip in this movie ngl. And the boys have some variety in their attire too - it's just something that like before doesn't get much focus on as it isn't the important part of the scene.

The Ikran of team blue all have harnesses that basically look the same as the N'vi oney, but 'uitlitarian.

The harness on Quaritchs Ikran (apparently he names her Cupkae - wich is already so muhc win). seems to have an area in the front and most definitively added handles there for Spider to sit and hold on so he won't fall off. .

This attention to detail

Cupcake?!?

I hadn't noticed the handholds for Spider yet, that's a cool detail!
I was looking at the harnesses for the ilu, and wondering what the buckles were made off. What material lets itself be shaped into rectangular rings, if not metal?

Rectangular rings ?

You mean the handle between the 'feelers' ?


Maybe shaped bone, maybe wood, maybe parts of corals that already grew kinda in the right shape and were shaped more later. Maybe strengthend with some resin and then straps of leather added.



Also: notice how the pattern of the Ilu is perfect for underwater camouflage - bright on the belly side to not be seen easily from below and shades of blue looking a lot like waves and water from above.

Ok - this is maybe not so much of a noticing thing, but .... I wonder how tall Spider will turn out to be in the end.

He's stated to be 186cm already at age 16 - which is quite tall. And he's not fully grown yet.

Sure you can argue that your height is determined by your genes and it most surely is the case here too, but hear me out: Pandora has measurable less gravity than earth. Not so much to eff up human physiology completely but enough to make a difference over time. We know that human bodies can and will react to changes in gravity from the average on earth quickly and noticably.
Adding on top that he was born there and thusly his whole maturing process took place under these conditions - including the growth of the long bones and with a good diet on top (no one ever really went hungry here) ... I can totally see that in addition to having the genes to come out on the taller side of the human average the lower gravity all through his growing process might've led to him simply growing taller - maybe even significantly so - than he would've on earth.

If things go on like this he might break the 2m mark when fully grown. Surely not nearly as tall as an average Na'vi still but with a good chance of towering over the average human.

Got another one: there's an informationin - I think the visual dictionary - how the 'breathing fishies' work.

Turns out the Kuru (queue) is not just a bundle of nerves wit hloose ends inside a fleshy sheath. I always wondered about the size to be honest. The Kuru has loads of nerves, bloods vessels and likely other systemic circulatory functions liek lmýmph and such runnign within it.

When the bond is made not only can nerval signals be transported back and forth but the Kuru can 'expand' to make a connectio between the circulatory systems too. In other words it's a kind of umbilical chord - just permanently throughout your life.

The 'breathing fishy' provide oxygen to the Na'vi attached via this and are very effective in doing so as the the whole span of their wings is literally gills and can filter the oxygen out of the water for the Na'vi to breathe (there was als otalk of a speculated co-evolution as the reff people would make very good use of this basically never ending supply of breathable ari for underwater acitvities and in exchange the fishies will be protected by them from predators).

Also of note here: the Tulkun mothers and calfes as well as Na'vi mothers and babies regularly will connect via tsaheylu to exchange not only first information but also nutrients.

An as an additional cookie: the 'tree' at the cove of the ancestors works the same way - the moment the bond is made oxygen will be transported to the Na'vi attached which makes it a lot safer to get into a trance like state whilst being underwater for prolonged períods of time. Also the Metkayina have a system where no one ever goes down there alone, but is always with a 'diving partner' who will be on the lookout that nothing happens ot the person doing the bond.

Which also explains to me how in the world Neytiri was able to be bonded to the tree for quite some time at the end of the movie without having gone thorugh the same breathing training as the kids.

How DOES a tulkun bond with the spirit tree or another tulkun (if that's what they do) if their kurus are inside their mouths?
I also heard the bit about the diving partner when connecting to the spirit tree, but didn't see anyone near when Jake and Neytiri went down there at the end of the movie. It seems like they completely rewrote the biology of the kurus since the first movie, showing the babies with fleshy kurus (really, I'm supposed to believe that there's a big flesh snake inside their braids? they sseem way to flexible for that) and now with oxygen being able to travel through it.

Either way, I want to talk about Payakan. Since the humans have only been back on Pandora for a year and a half (give of take, by the end of the movie), the incident that took Payakan's fin must have taken place fairly recently. Which also means that it was probably Scoresby leading the Seadragon attack on his mother (he's lucky to have made it out of there alive - the other little one wasn't so lucky, though Payakan might have been somewhat older when it happened), and the person responsible for taking his fin. Awesome that he got to return the favor.
I also noticed that Payakan splashed the water to get Scoresby's attention, meaning that the action where he grabs the harpoon was planned out by him!

Hmm - I always thought the Kuru is a 'fleshy' thing and the hair is just braided around it. We can see this in Jakes brainscans at the beginning of AV1 and also on the baby a woman is carrying when the Omatikaya leave for the Tress of Sould after the destruction of Hometree - despite the babay being bald for the most part the hair around the Kuru was already braided.

Which leads me to think again that the hair directly around it is different from the rest of the head. It obviously grows much longer much faster and seems to be a bit thicker to protect the Kuru better.

So I wouldn't say 'totally rewritten' but more like expanded on. Most things we 'knew' about that were extrapolated by us based on the little information we had. To me it actualyl makes more sense that this is a real extremity/limb and not just an open bundle of nerves - as this would be a very ghihg risk and a weird physical characteristic.

Also the Kuru obviously not having any bones in it and not having much muscle either (as it can't be moved like tha tail for example - you have to use your hands to do stuff with it ... different from many animals around, mind you) ... it's practically a fleshy sheath and logically behaves like an oversized wet noodle somewhat.

Whe nit comes to the whaling stuff the timeline is strongly disputed. I also can#t really see when Payakan was attacked. Technically the hunts as we've seen it can't be going on for much more than a good year, His fin looks pretty healed and for that though. Maybe Tulkun heal faster or something.

Most people seem to take issue wit hthe amrita stuff: how can the huamsn know all of this in just a year.

To which I say: it's been about 17 years. We have absolutely nothing to indicate that Graces team was the only research team out there. We don#t even have anything to indicate that Hells Gate was the only bigger human settlement. Given how flexible and sturdy the habitat modules are I can totally see smaller outposts being put up for exploration of potential resources (you can't find anything of potential market value if you don't go looking for it) and research of all kinds.

If I am not mistaken the visual dictionary stated Garvin as the one who found out about amrita as a substance. (The npeopel come and say that they weren't hunting back then, to which I say that this wasn't necessary to find the substance itself. There are other possibilites.) And that he was researching taking a kind of katamaran to the seas. Which also explains why he is so knowledgeable about the ecosystem and the culture there. And it's still not a 'plothole' in any way that he's back. Again: why only bring the recom back as seasoned personnel ? You may want more peopel with actual experience out there.

Amrita being discovered as a substance would've given the humans years to research it's properties on earth and find out what it does. It would also make thewhaling equipment make sense as all of this seems ot be fitted to hunt Tulkun specifically.


I wonder if we might actually stumbel over some old human outpost(s) in the future - might be really interesting.

Anyways: more or less spontaneously went to a 4th viewing yesterday.

A few more things ...

In the opening montage when Jake and Ney go se eGraces pregnant Avatar baby Neteyam is in a baby sling around Neytiri.

The children around age 2 or 3 are playing with wooden toy Pa'li in the background (probabyl was psotted before, but was new to me).

At neteyams naming ceremony you can spot the structure ofthe new village in the background.

Neteyams Ikran looks a lot lite Seze in colour and pattern whilst Lo'aks Ikran is way more liek Jakes, oonly with even more indigo (a pretty one, I may add).

When the warband returns you can see more huma nbuildigns a bit higher in the background with quite a lot 'satellite' dishes on the roof.

When treating Neteyams bruises I can see a new head dress on Mo'at.

When the kids go to see Grace after the maglev attack (walking throg hte Avatar sleeping quarters) Lo'ak is opening and holding the door for everyone else.

The mountain fortress being in a cave system is rather dark and wet with bare rocks as flooring ... no wonder the children went out for a bit and no wonder everyone was playing aorund with the environment so much (I'd be grass-hugging too if I had been used to being outisde everyday and then change to that).

I spotted a lot more costumes I didn't see before (you have to look for it as people being dressed is not the focus of the story, so the camera simpyl does not put emphasis on it .. which I do[i/] like a lot .. it feels more natural).

Looking for it you can see Neteyam really loosing quite a lot of blood (even his necklace is literally glistening). Someone of tha tdiscord said it was not believable how littel he was bleeding. But he was, the camera jsut didn't show it directly - it's there if you open your eyes.

And I can't help but be jsut fascinated how much characterisation and establishing of relationships is done just seamlessly and naturally by body language. As before it's absolutely visible just not so much in focus that what people are saying takes the backseat. The way everyone moves aorund each other ... just so good.

Someone saying "I don't know why they're here." in the background when the family arrived at the reef.

Jake being framed to the left and a bit below eyeline when Neytiri asks Kiri what is wrong when they're preparing food ... they are inside, he's outside (it looks a bit like he's trying to gut a fish) - you can see him listening in and just for a moment the camera gets him into focus a little bit more, sharpening his outline just enough so you know that he heard what has been said too ... so it makes even more sense why he was talking to Kiri on the boat later.
That slipped through on the first three watches completely.

Neteyam dragging in Aonung by his Kuru after the reef posse pulled that fast one on Lo'ak.

Tuks full name is only said once in the entire movie - when Ronal comes in to treat Kiri. Ronal takes a needle that the dips in a liquid and the small cup that hold the liquid she gives to Tuk (there are only women in the room at this point) - and she clearly calls her Tuktirey.

When Norm and Max talk to Jake about Kiri having epilepsy it's in front of the house (the 'porch' ?) - you can see Kiri being treated inside through the open door in the background and Neytiri pacing back and forth in the entrance like a tiger in a too small cage.

When Kiri has her seizure she and the ree start to flicker crazy together and go out together - and her glowing dots are all completely dark until Neteyam resuscitates her .. then they start to slowly glim again. The are always on except you're dead. She was out[/]

I'm not a fan of the whole amrita addition. I think that unobtanium to save earth and now human colonization to flee it is enough. It feels like they just had to come up with a reason for humans to hunt the tulkun, and "immortality" seemed a little too ridiculous to me. Amrita curing cancer would have been more realistic, but I understand also doesn't spark the same outrage as killing them for an anti-aging serum. Humans are supposed to die of old age, not cancer. A cancer cure would have given the audience more personal conflict - the tulkun hunt is bad, but its for a good reason, as opposed to it's bad, and for a bad reason. The humans are just too easy to hate in this film. Don't get me wrong, I utterly enjoyed watching them get slaughtered, but you're not given any reason whatsoever to sympathize with them. It went heavy on the "Na'vi good, humans bad". It will be interesting to see how Jim alters these dynamics in part 3.

Well - Unobtanium was not an inch better than amrita is from that particular narrative standpoint. I actually like it as this shows how vanity fuels exploitation and destruction, wastefulness cements it.

Also unobtanium is not out of the picture at all . they also started mining again, but to scale this up it simply needs more time than to built a boat or two. The RDA comes in to exploit absolutely everything the can - so adding new 'resources' makes sense.

As for settling: first of all one always has to remember that Ardmore is an entire different weightclass than Quaritch or Parker when it comes to ... sweettalking people. She is not just some military upper rank but also trained and educated in politics ... and experienced on top. So whatever comes out of her mouth has to be taken with at least a grain of salt at the best of times.

And what does that even mean "Earth is dying." - lady we are already at that point. Also it's not 'earth' that's dying but simply the ecosystems we as humans are used to. We absolutely stomped the holocene out of continuation and are thouroughly within the anthropocene. Earth has seen worse than humans- she'll be fine. It'll cost a lot, but she'll jsut go on. What this is actualyl referring to is that humans despite every hint to stopd being stupid dumfacks continued on their mission of self destruction and now that they are at their wits end (maybe not acutally at an end- just at the end of being able to go on like this) they go elsewhere to do just the same ... and we have learned nothing.

The humans are not very different from the first part. You see those that are there to ifnest this place with their status quo and those that really don't agree, but don't know how to do anything against it. What I see is that foundations have been laid for more complex narrative lines.

To me this is fascinatingly interesting - I want ot see more about hte humans and yes, also some of earth (all we've seen are very short falshbacks from only one single persepctive .. that's not a good sample size).

Elyris wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:32 am Jake being framed to the left and a bit below eyeline when Neytiri asks Kiri what is wrong when they're preparing food ... they are inside, he's outside (it looks a bit like he's trying to gut a fish) - you can see him listening in and just for a moment the camera gets him into focus a little bit more, sharpening his outline just enough so you know that he heard what has been said too ... so it makes even more sense why he was talking to Kiri on the boat later.

You can also see Neytiri and Tuk inside the tent when Jake and Kiri are chatting on the boat. Looks like they're preparing food. And there's a huge amount of little fishes coming in from all sides to swim around Kiri's feet.

Elyris wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:32 am Tuks full name is only said once in the entire movie - when Ronal comes in to treat Kiri. Ronal takes a needle that the dips in a liquid and the small cup that hold the liquid she gives to Tuk (there are only women in the room at this point) - and she clearly calls her Tuktirey.

Did you see Neytiri sitting in the corner, balled up and rocking back and forth while they're examining Kiri?
It seems common for the Tsahik to involve female family members in healing procedures. Kiri helps Mo'at patch up Neteyam, and Tuk helps Ronal with Kiri. Neytiri doesn't help, even though she's basically Tsahik in training (at least before they moved).

I was also looking at Lo'ak's necklace. The first half of the movie, he's wearing a single necklace with a large claw on it. Later he's wearing a more intricately woven necklace with two smaller claws (or teeth?) on it. He's started to wear this new necklace just before getting into a fight with the other boys, and not after the shark incident like I expected. So my best guess is that it's a gift (from Tsireya?) and not something related to an impactful event. I was also half expecting Tsireya or even one of his siblings to start wearing the large claw, but haven't yet seen it on anyone.

Yeah - I saw Neytiri in the background when Ronal is there.

I think ney's not really 'Tsahik potential' character wise - a bit too hotblooded maybe. Ronal is very similar in character too though. Whilst Mo'at is realyl calm and open minded and hearted.

Yeah- clothing is highly individualised. The techniques used are more specific to the region/clan but the really important part are the materials used - not just what is available to each person at a time but also everthing is of meaning inwards and outwards. Pretty much the opposite of what we do: an extremely heightened sesne of community (eatign together, families sleeppign together closely in open rooms, practically no doors between private quarters and the 'public' areas, many celebrations with the whole clan ...) ther's also a distincs sense for individuaism - clothes, jewlery, personal items, even the plates to eat from - all completely individual.

The entire garnment topic is jsut something I cna bury my fangs in. So well thought out and made and yet taking such a backseat. (I hope that at some point the costume designer will get some credit for this. Just because it was digitalised at the end doesn't mean no one put 'classic' creative work and craftsmanship into this.)