New Hometree

Let’s hear it! If you’re here, you must have seen it. What did you think? Mind blown?!?

I’ll be back here in 24 hrs to let you know if we cried or not.

Wow

Absolutly stunning!
Great world and character building, each scene more stunning than the next and a real badass story through and through.
Loved the way they brought back Quaritch and the gang, giving it a new flavor to them.
Story of Kiri is intriguing and I wish I could've seen a bit more of her story.
Tuk be Tuk!
Spider was a lot more fun than I thought he would be which was nice to see.
Neteyam... I would loved to see more of him due to his role in the end and the impact that he made.

However...
A few things that I didn't like was the in the first half, Jim basically hard copied quite a few scenes from the first movie, I mean like copying it frame by frame much like what Disney did with some of its old classics, and it didn't add anything to the movie. I fully understand that Jim wanted to connect a few threads to the first movie, but it could've been made a lot better if he gave the scenes a bit more character to their own.
Also sad that they didn't add more scenes with Norm, Max and the others left behind in this one, but perhaps they'll get more screen time in the third movie.

Also a few references in the movie like Moby dick with the whaler as he lost his arm, so he'll return for the next movie.
When Lo'ak entered the mouth of the Tulkun, the pattern you see in its mouth is from the movie "The Abyss" from the end scene with the alien ship.


But all in all, a good movie.
8/10

Ok, it's confirmed that the whale guy will return for the third movie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx6mTOBIRw&t=1394s

100% agree with you on all you just said!
Nawm and I were giving each other looks every time another scene was shamelessly copied. You can do that with a remake, but not with a sequel! Maybe once as a wink, but not a dozen times. We were also afraid that the soundtrack would be too different, but instead they went the opposite way and blatantly reused parts of the sound track.

We also have major questions about some of the biology. Like how do the fairy wing fish physically make it so that you don't have to breath? And how come the Na'vi don't cough up lungs full of water when they're brought back above water after almost drowning?

And we had the same question we had during the first movie: You go to battle with a whole gang of people until suddenly.... no one is anywhere to be found and it's just the handful of main characters left. It's like the tulkun got tired after it's first two attacks and needed a break (along with all the Metkayina), before coming back to help swim them out.

Over all, after the first viewing we feel like it didn't quite meet our expectations. They were of course impossibly high, after 13 years of anticipation and hearing JC brag about how good the story is.
Either way, we'd bought advance tickets for 2 more screenings, so we'll go and see the movie again tonight and on Tuesday and see how we feel after that. Some people say it's better the second time around, so we'll see.

Oh and they'll probably give the whaler a bad ass robot arm or something in the third one.

Oh, almost forgot another thing that almost made me mental!

In the introduction of Na'vi Quaritch, when human Quaritch gave his little instruction, did you noticed that he didn't have his scars?
The time of the video goes to that it was just before the big battle as he mention Jake Sully in it, that it's most likely him that killid him and to get the blame.

It's one of the details that doesn't add up at all...

Edit: Ok, you can see the scars in one small shot, but then in the next they're gone...

So the second viewing was definitely better than the first one, just because you know what to expect. The copied shots & lines didn't stand out to me as much as they did the first time.

I didn't notice Quaritch's scars missing, mostly because the way the camera turns around in that scene just makes me super disoriented and I have to look away. I can't imagine they would've forgotten about them. I'll try to have a closer look on Tuesday when we're going for our 3rd trip.
That shot is also the only shot in the whole movie with Selfridge in it, and he gets a big end credit for it. I know he's a bigger name than the kids, but they're carrying the whole movie and I feel like they should've gotten a main credit for that.

By the way, I love Tonowari. He's so imposing and mean looking, while in fact it's Ronal who you have to look out for.

So ....

1. the 'cinema experience':

I ahad to wait for someone to come and check my ticket for nearly 10minutes as rather obviously the cinema was pretty understaffed and the two (yea, just 2 ) employees were very busy selling nachos and popcorn.

There was no break - in a practically 3,5 hour movie. Ad after that, logically, there was a line at the restrooms. I did not feel good.

It was cold. But that was to be expected so I dressed in my warmest wool sweater and a wool skirt.

The theatre was mayber half full - not too bad for around here.

The woman next to be was "hrmmhrmm" ing way too much.

2. The movie itself:

'Recycled' shots - yes, most definitively there. I wonder why it was so obvious. Maybe most other people won't notice as much, as I can't help but think that not everyone watched it as much as we around here.

I really liked the 'Cameron-meta'. "The Abyss" was already mentioned, but I had to smirk a lot with the Alines reference and - naturally - Avatar 1 self referencing in scenes and more so dialouges (like "masks off" instead of "masks on" and Max just can't help talking about good looking brains apparently) - I enjoy stuff like that as it doesn't hurt the narrative not noticing but for those who do it's mor fun.

Avatar Quaritch was a surprise but actually made sense and most definiteively had (due to having to wait a lifetime for the second part) one of the longest setups in movie history. He after all said to Jake whilst climbing into the Exosiut "A marine in an Avatar-body ... even i get goosebumps" (sorry if that's not the english original I have the german one in mind here). So yeah - there it was right in front of everyone but no one thought more of it at that time. Nicely done. Also makes sense. Up until this point it was nothing but a comparatively small mining outpost with some research attached and a bit of on-site security. Expanding and exploiting like it's nobodys buiseness is just what civilisation does, I am afraid. And preparations for that most certainly were already underway back at AV1 taking the to actually do stuff on earth + travel distance into account.

On that note I found Kiri way more surprising. Here as so often I woud've wished for more meat on the bone, so to speak. Giving that her introduction is like - what 10 seconds ? - before the story proper just starts. Could have been more here - maybe things will add up in the sequels.

Poor Neteyam though. I wished it hadn't been as televised at it was fro mthe get-go. Get's the only 'baby is born to the parents' and 'namign ceremony' scene of all of the sibling to make the character position as child more pronounced? Check. Having the longest of all of the childrens names (whilst consideriung that most people have twitter damage nowadays and seemingly can't remember anything with more that 2 syllables very well) ? Check. Despite being the oldest and thusly usually more in the spotlight so to speak not being on many of the movie posters? Check. And those are just a few very red flags all over.

I want to get surprised more.

(As a sidenote I can't help but laugh about how WoW is pulling a House of Dragon with quite a few new characters, mainly children and so many new names and faces - including the forseeable reaction of people who do not want to be bothered with actually using their brain capacity on things like this.)

The first half was a bit slower, yes. Maybe could've been shortened a littel to make room for more worldbuilding that wasn't 'training' (more songs, more customs and more cooking, please).

Also more humans. I really would've liked to seehow they fared in the 'between' time.

Whaling references galore! (I really and wholeheartedly recommend the documentaries "America, whaling and the world" - where amongst other things there is mention of one of Herman Melvillies memories as he was workign a deck hand on a Whaling ship of how the exact hunting tecniques were used we see to drastically demonstraed here - and "Blackfish" ... both a really worth a watch.)

Hand's up for the cut-and-dry marine biologist. I had a lot of fun with his character.

It was really interesting to see how the ocean Na'vi adapted physically to this lifestyle. For short reference: the nowadays sadly disappearing 'sea-nomad' tribes on earth are very adapted in interesting ways to live like that. One of the most interesting features being the ability to see clearly underwater. This is usually not a thing as due to the waeker light beneath the waves human pupils dialate - making the image not as sharp as it would be on land and mostly making us more near-sighted as we are. These people managed to learn early on as small children (as they had to learn how to swin at dive practically at the same time as walk) how to conciously control the muscles around their pupils to stop this from happening. It makes for an interesting sight to see people diving with those very small pupils. A bit eerie but extraordinarily interesting. As so often this ability is mostly lost now due to everyone being forced into civilisation.

It's getting a bit late and I have to ruminate more.

I will have at least a second watch next week with some colleagues. (And I will remember to bnot drink anything beforehand.)

Oh -that last one turned out to be kinds long, huh?

I'll try an make shorter bits then.

I really appreciate the night shots - so much more bioluminescence all around, just great.

I was confused by Neytiris new Ikran still looking so much like Zese - they could've choose some different colours here. We also don't get the names of the family's Ikran (then again, we never got the nmae of Jakes Ikran either, so .. yea).

Considering the situation as it is right now Tuc won't get an Irkan then.

I did like how they made Quritchs Irkan in such an agrssive colour-scheme. Nice touch.

Also during most of the move Ikran were not having a good time.

Concerning housing and everyday life:

The Omaticaya really pulled an Anasazi there (I like it).

I really wnated to see more of the ocean-peoples living quaters and daily acitvities.

Then again same goes for the researchers - they seem to have a kind of human outpost as well as some livign quaters for their Avatars directly in the village (Also why is Norm in 2 of the 3 times we see a bit of him brushing his teeth in the background?) Years have passe and I just wonder how they survived, how they adapted and just simply how the fare.

Parenting bogaloo


What a great example why black pedagogy is such an awful way of interacting with people in general and children specifically. Nothing good comes from this shyte. Just .. don't be an ass to your kid. Learn and grow together and hear them out.

Emotional neglect by means of practically ignoring the whole personality of a child and if anything focusing only on what you perceive as faulty is not a good thing.

Neither is blatant manipulation. Somewhat funny how Quaritch is merely the logical further development of this kind of interaction - all what seems like 'sensible' or normal behaviour (especially for the US-american audiences, where this way of raising children is so prevalent) is stripped away to the core of the matter. Cold, cruel and violent. Manipulation and gaslighting galore. Also has the benefit that he attacker can feel like the good guy in this all of the time. After all - he's 'sensible' to the situation, strict but holding out olive brances and oof course only ever having the best for the child in mind ... and such - of course, only in when no one looks at it from the outside.

In these situations there is talk of parents (of parent figures) wanting 'respect' - do not let yourself be fooled. They want blind obedience. The 'child' should do what it is told, immediately and without questioning, doubt or reluctance. Those parents are not adults, they are overgrown schoolyard bullies using the leverage they have due to the social constellation.

This was likely the most frustrating and anger-inducing part of all of that to me. It's so real in it's depiction and hit way too close to home. Nauseating.

On a more cheerful note:

Why are 2 of those kids named after (german) snacks ?

I liked the transition from spoken Na'vi to spoken english right in the beginning. Nice and smooth. Really reminded me of how that was done in 'Hunt for Red October'.

Also: being trapped in a large sinking vehicle in general in more prominently in (half-) darness with rising interior water levels in simply pure nightmare fuel. Ugh

Elyris wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:56 pm Whaling references galore! (I really and wholeheartedly recommend the documentaries "America, whaling and the world" - where amongst other things there is mention of one of Herman Melvillies memories as he was workign a deck hand on a Whaling ship of how the exact hunting tecniques were used we see to drastically demonstraed here - and "Blackfish" ... both a really worth a watch.)

I figured a lot of the tulkun hunting scene was based on earthen whale hunting. It's absolutely brutal and heart wrenching to watch, and I don't know if I can rewatch TWOW as many times as I've watched Avatar for this specific reason. As interesting as those docu's might be, I don't think I have the stomach to watch them.

Elyris wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:56 pm It was really interesting to see how the ocean Na'vi adapted physically to this lifestyle. For short reference: the nowadays sadly disappearing 'sea-nomad' tribes on earth are very adapted in interesting ways to live like that. One of the most interesting features being the ability to see clearly underwater. This is usually not a thing as due to the waeker light beneath the waves human pupils dialate - making the image not as sharp as it would be on land and mostly making us more near-sighted as we are. These people managed to learn early on as small children (as they had to learn how to swin at dive practically at the same time as walk) how to conciously control the muscles around their pupils to stop this from happening. It makes for an interesting sight to see people diving with those very small pupils. A bit eerie but extraordinarily interesting. As so often this ability is mostly lost now due to everyone being forced into civilisation.

Will definitely pay attention to their pupils when we're going for our 3rd viewing tonight. Thanks for pointing that out! (<-- small pupils)


I am unable to open the spoiler tag (and I tried with 2 different browsers), so I'll have to keep wondering who the other person is who's named after a snack. We have Tuc crackers in NL, so that's my first guess.

I do not know if you can see this with the Na'vi though, it's something I saw with humans. But I read somewhere that the Metkayina posess nictitating membranes. I will most definitevely look out for this.

Also: the symbolism of the 'heritance bow' breaking under the literal weight of the going-ons.



https://d2jdyzt6tc17s.cloudfront.net/pr ... 01.jpg.jpg

I hope the link works.

I really liked this review - brings everything together and on point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gelmi4hvJes

[youtube]v=gelmi4hvJes[/youtube]

It was interesting to notice that the Metkaiyna don't use bows and arrows but smaller and larger spears as well as some sort of crossbow.
Makes sense though, given the habitat.

Two reviews/documentaries/thoughtstreams I appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4c8avw6qo8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvWk9EeN_5c

Thanks, Elyris!
I may go on Mopnday.

What do you think, is 11 years old too young to watch it?

Hey

Depends of the person and he headspace you're in, I guess. In my last viewing there some rather young children.

There is fighting and explosions and such, but more importantly it'll make you cry. But that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. When I was 8 or 9 we watched 'In a Land befor our time' and man I was done for afterwards. And 'Watership Down' is a classical childrens book.

In my eyes being 'hurt' even at an earlier age may help you to develop compassion and empathy with others and see the destructiveness of certain actions more clearly even later on in life. Besides: just because we don't look at the bad stuff it won't disappear magically. After all - the opposite of 'love' is not 'hate' but indifference.

So if you think an 11 year old can take some heartache, so to speak - go for it. You are old enoug hat that age to understand and "think through" and "feel through" the experience and grow from it. 11 should be fine (maybe not 7 or 8 but 11 should be OK).

Thank you for the detailed analysis!

Did you see it, Flighter? With your kid? How did you guys enjoy it?

Not yet, not yet, sniffle sniffle
I just hope they keep playing it in IMAX or at least 4D

I don't think I can catch it in IMAX. The only cinema that would've been in acceptable distance seems to undergo some sort of 'renovation' right now. It doesn't even clearly say at the cinemas homepage if any of the movies played are still played at the IMAX.

Yay

flighter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:01 pm I just hope they keep playing it in IMAX or at least 4D

So we've seen it 5 times in 5 different formats: Laser IMAX, regular IMAX (or what Nawm likes to call: Liemax), Ultra AVX 3D, 4DX and ScreenX 2D.

The 4DX was quite something! It's like riding a 3 hour roller coaster (as if it being an emotional roller coaster wasn't enough). I learned that riding a Skimwing is an extremely choppy experience, it shakes you with every swish of its tail. I definitely recommend for women to wear a sports bra when going to the 4DX

It was fun to have experienced once, but I prefer IMAX. It seems like the next movie in IMAX ("Pathaan") is coming out on Jan 25th, so you still have a few weeks to catch WOW (assuming release dates are the same globally).

Eeeehhhh uhh eehhhh

I don't think that there's something like 4D even within a few hours of flight.